| ||||
> Jensen Healey & Jensen GT Tech > Electrical & Instruments > WOSP Starter Motor Install, 3x the torque and 1/3 the size and weight |
| ||||
> Jensen Healey & Jensen GT Tech > Electrical & Instruments > WOSP Starter Motor Install, 3x the torque and 1/3 the size and weight |
| Moderated by: Greg Fletcher |
|
||||||||||||||
| WOSP Starter Motor Install, 3x the torque and 1/3 the size and weight | Rate Topic |
| Author | Post |
|---|
| Posted: 03-17-2020 06:59 am |
|
1st Post |
|
discogodfather Member 
|
WOSP is a UK firm that does modern Denso based starters for British classics. Saw them from an ebay reseller and decided to give it a chance as my old starter was fizzing out and struggled to give me 400 rpm. The unit is very nice, all aluminum, and comes in at less than half the weight and size of the original. It also has a very unique mounting position option where you can literally clock it in any direction (rotation) you want. The stock location it came with was already perfect. This was advertised to work on the JH and all Lotus 907's. Easiest install ever but I was confused as to where to hook up the "cold start booster" wire. I emailed WOSP and they got back to me within hours on a weekend and said that it wasn't necessary to hook it up, especially with the high energy low resistance coil I am using with the custom 43D I had modified. Starts right up, high rpm's and draws less than half the amps. Really smooth starts now with no excuses. I used to pray the Lucas unit would work on cold mornings. The Denso motor is so smooth it makes the engine sound like a modern car for a second when its cranking. Super quiet too. This has to be the single best upgrade I have done since resurrecting her from a 12 year hiatus. Fewer wires in nice too, it just needs switched 12v in and your done. Pricey at $350 but it's well worth it. Just for the weight savings and size savings alone. I can easily get an oil filter wrench behind the filter now.  Luke at WOSP answered all my questions quickly. He said if I wanted a newer unit, they had incorporated a cold start hookup into their newer models. I would just order directly from them next time.    
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: 03-20-2020 10:12 am |
|
2nd Post |
|
mtechwim Member
|
That looks like a very nice upgrade indeed.
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: 03-21-2020 12:07 am |
|
3rd Post |
|
Tom Bradley Member
|
Very nice. The price is a bit painful though. I notice that the price is considerably higher than WOSP starters for other British cars like the TR's. Lower volumes, maybe?
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: 03-23-2020 02:15 am |
|
4th Post |
|
discogodfather Member
|
Tom Bradley wrote:Very nice. The price is a bit painful though. I notice that the price is considerably higher than WOSP starters for other British cars like the TR's. Lower volumes, maybe? I bet, especially because it's got this CNC machined aluminum plate that allows mounting in a variety of different positions. Just unbolt the plate and you can adjust it in many positions at about 10 degree increments for 360 degrees.
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: 04-21-2020 07:56 am |
|
5th Post |
|
nrb993 Member
|
Thank you so much for advising as my starter is on its last legs.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: 04-21-2020 08:02 am |
|
6th Post |
|
nrb993 Member
|
Hi - Please may I ask, what is the cold start wire and how does it work, I am not sure I understand. I can see a wire to the Tachometer called a Eureka Resistance wire, is this the wire please.
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: 04-21-2020 08:19 am |
|
7th Post |
|
discogodfather Member
|
nrb993 wrote:Hi - Please may I ask, what is the cold start wire and how does it work, I am not sure I understand. I can see a wire to the Tachometer called a Eureka Resistance wire, is this the wire please. No, the cold start circuit is a dedicated wire, white with yellow stripe, that runs from the starter to the coil. The idea is that during cold starts, it boosts some power into the coil. It's not necessary on the WOSP since it draws so few amps anyway and is much more efficient. WOSP used to supply their units for the Lotus 907 with a seperate wire with a diode on it to prevent any power backfeeding into the coil circuit, but that was the older units. Now they offer a unit that has a terminal and you can just connect that, if you want. So far my older unit is functioning perfectly well without the circuit at all. Even if I had the newer unit I probably would not hook up the circuit. Highlighted in red, from the factory electrical diagram: 
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: 04-21-2020 06:10 pm |
|
8th Post |
|
Esprit2 Member
|
Most ignition systems include a ballast resistor prior to the coil. If 12 volts is 'nominal', the resistor will drop the voltage delivered to the coil down to about 6 or 7 volts for normal running. Then the starter-mounted solenoid has one extra small terminal. When the solenoid is energized, it turns power 'On' to the starter motor, and also 'On' to that extra spade terminal. A wire goes from that terminal directly to the coil's (+) input terminal, bypassing the ballast resistor and delivering a full 12 volts to the coil. That way the coil puts out a hotter spark only while the engine is being started. As soon as the key is released from the "Start" position, that bypass circuit turns off, and the coil goes back to running on reduced voltage via the ballast resistor. The whole purpose is to provide a hotter spark during start-up, and the bypass circuit is 'Off' all the rest of the time. In Lotus cars, the wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid that 'tells' the starter to run is is White with a Red stripe (WR). The wire on the solenoid's second small terminal is output for the resistor bypass wire from the starter solenoid direct to the coil, and it's White with a Yellow stripe (WY). From the ignitiion switch to the coil, the full 12V wire is White (no stripe) as far as the ballast resistor. From the ballast resistor to the coil, the reduced voltate wire is White with a Yellow stripe (WY). So at the coil's (+) input terminal, there will be two WY wires attached. One from the ballast resistor with reduced voltage for normal running, and one from the starter solenoid with full system voltage for starting only. The wire and stripe colors follow a standard code. If you figure out the White, White-Yellow and White-Red wires in your J-H, you should find that the similar wires in a Lotus/ MG/ Triumph look pretty familiar. Regards, Tim Engel Last edited on 04-21-2020 06:40 pm by Esprit2 |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: 04-21-2020 09:14 pm |
|
9th Post |
|
nrb993 Member
|
Thank you so much, I have spoken to WOSP, they replied within 10 minutes, the starter is available for £229 including postage, this is $282. Not bad I think cheers Neil
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: 04-21-2020 10:33 pm |
|
10th Post |
|
Esprit2 Member
|
Not to take anything away from WOSP, but Gustafson Specialty Products make a similar product by modifying Nippondenso geared starters to fit a variety of Britcars and other specialty cars (Ferrari, etc). The owner is also a Lotus owner and considers himself 'one of us'. Gustafson starters are available from JAE and Dave Bean Engineering, and it wouldn't surprise me if Delta Motorsports carried them. They're not cheap either, but as long as your shopping in that price range, why not check them out as well. The following link should open to Gustafson's 'dealers' page: http://gustafsonspecialty.com/welcome2.html I've installed Gustafson starters in 4 different Britcars (okay... Lotus), and give them a hearty thumbs up. Regards, Tim Engel
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: 04-22-2020 12:34 am |
|
11th Post |
|
discogodfather Member
|
If I had known about Gustafson I probably would have gone that route, especially here in the States. They look almost identical.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: 07-17-2020 11:30 pm |
|
12th Post |
|
Tom Bradley Member
|
My starter was doing more and more clicking before starting, so I decided to get the Gustafson. On the plus side, it is smaller, lighter and cranks a bit faster than the stock starter. It also was priced $40 less than the WOSP. Hopefully it will also be more reliable. On the down side, I did not like the way it mounted very much. As delivered, the only way to mount it was with the high-current battery connection turned towards (and almost touching) the engine block, which was totally not acceptable. The best rotation I found got the HC connection up towards the top, but that partially blocked the lower mounting bolt so I had to hand tighten it a ways before I could get a socket wrench on it. Fortunately the mounting threads were clean so hand tightening was not a problem. It is also lacking the connection for the ballast resistor bypass, which I do not need, but if someone else does, the WOSP might be a better choice. The latest versions are supposed to have that. If I knew of a place that actually did a good job or rebuilding the original starters I might be tempted to go that way. Unfortunately the solenoid always seems to get unreliable fairly quickly. The starter motor itself has always worked well for me. However, I live in San Diego, so do not have to try to start up in very cold weather. In that case the WOSP and Gustafson varieties might be significantly better. Last edited on 07-17-2020 11:31 pm by Tom Bradley |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: 07-18-2020 04:48 pm |
|
13th Post |
|
Esprit2 Member
|
Tom, In the long run, I think you'll like the Gustafson starter (or WOSP, for that matter). My solution for the positive battery cable is to attach it to the starter motor first (complete with a rubber boot) prior to installing the starter. Yes, the cable gets in the way a little bit, but no big deal. After the starter is installed, connect the far end of the cable. Whenever I'm replacing any starter (stock or geared), I also 1) Replace the positive cable with the heaviest gauge one that is readily available off the shelf, and... 2) Add a similarly heavy gauge ground cable between one of the starter's mounting bolts and the chassis ground point (ie, where the battery's black ground cable bolts to the chassis. 3) Smear the mounting faces of the block and starter with Anti-Seize (preferrably the 'copper' A-S). The stock skinny cables are restrictive. It might surprise you how much better the stock starter will perform when more current can get to it. Over time, the joint between the block and starter corrodes and continuity is compromised. I've 'fixed' many Lucas starters on 907s by simply removing the starter, cleaning both faces (block & starter), applying a light smear of Anti-Seize, and re-installing the starter. The engine's rubber mounts electrically isolate it from the chassis, so there's a small cable that shunts around one of the mounts. All the starter current must pass through that little shunt in order to get to ground. Adding the big fat ground cable directly to one of the starter's mounting bolts really helps the current flow. Regards, Tim Engel Last edited on 07-18-2020 05:05 pm by Esprit2 |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: 01-01-2022 07:03 pm |
|
14th Post |
|
DonBurns Member
|
I am in the process of installing one of the Gustafsen starters. Chose this because available quickly from Dave Bean. Looks very much like the WOSP, almost suspiciously so, with same rotating collar with what looks like the same drilled hole pattern. Anyway, one small issue is that the terminal for main power is a little farther from the battery than on the Lucas, and the wiring harness is not long enough to reach between the starter terminal and the battery terminal. My first thought was no problem, this thing has a rotating collar! But I discovered that the unit can really only rotate a few degrees before hitting something one direction or the other. So I need to lengthen the main cable. Short term I will just splice a length of cable (what gauge is that? 8? doesn't say on the wiring diagram) to the battery. Long term, replacing all the cables, as Tim suggests, probably the way to go. Any recommendations on connectors to presumably replace the "Battery Junction" to connect the other three 10-gauge brown wires? Looking at discogodfather car, are the three brown wires connected to the starter terminal? That seems like it might be the cleanest fix.
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: 01-03-2022 07:15 pm |
|
15th Post |
|
discogodfather Member
|
I remember replacing all my battery cables with stuff I found at a local O'Reileys, just measured the stock ones and they had a similar one in stock. I upgraded to 4 gauge. I think stock is 6 gauge. Going to the terminal with the brown wires is fine, but it's tight on these Denso starters. I had to push them off in opposing directions. The nut for the terminal was also very thin on these, it might be a good idea just to make another short length of cable and connect it in a Y shape, it depends on the circumstances.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: 01-03-2022 11:07 pm |
|
16th Post |
|
Tom Bradley Member
|
I also got a Gustafsen starter from Dave Bean. Been happy with it so far. It IS possible to install it rotated enough for my cables to fit (see pic). It did take more effort to install: you need the right tools and it had to go in stages as I recall. I did this mainly to get the high-current cable farther away from the engine block. I was afraid of some small piece of metal falling down there and shorting it out. If you go with the standard installation angle, be sure to have a rubber hood that completely covers the entire connection. Attachment: Gustafsen starter low res.jpg (Downloaded 88 times) Last edited on 01-03-2022 11:10 pm by Tom Bradley |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Current time is 08:41 pm | |
| > Jensen Healey & Jensen GT Tech > Electrical & Instruments > WOSP Starter Motor Install, 3x the torque and 1/3 the size and weight | Top |
