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superk83 Member
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Hello all, I'm new to the community and the 907 as well... I've picked up a motor and trans from a 75 and intend to use it in a Lotus 7 replica. Since most of my extra cash is going into the rebuild, I've decided to update(save cash/time in the long run)a few components. I intend to use the R1 carbs and Megajolt along with the Ford EDIS ignition system. Do any of you have experience with bike carbs and distributorless igntion on this motor? |
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JodyKerr Member 
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Sounds like a neat project! The guy who's done the most on distributorless is Steve Duschene. I am not certain he's online in this forum. I'll point him here. He just finished setting up a megajolt conversion on his 907 using some ford bits and other miscellany. He and I are presently (mostly him though) are working at adding FI to the Stromberg based manifold to go with the fancy ignition. |
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superk83 Member
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Great!! Thank you! I'll be picking up the small bits along the way, the major bits around tax time... Any advice or instruction would be awesome! I think I've seen some of the photobucket pages of the progress with efi... Looks good! |
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Jensen Healey Super Moderator 
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I fail to see how this is a good HP/buck value. The 907 suffers from short stroke, low compression and mild cams as well as carburetion. It's easy to bolt on the parts for about 180 HP. Flow work will take you to 220 HP. Up there crank fired ignition is more important. Block flex also becomes an issue. A late 912HC engine with it's stronger 2.2L block, cams and better flowing heads may be cheaper than building a 907. How will you get the Mukinis jetted? That's got to be costly. You can get jetted Dellortos with manifold for 220 British pounds from Mike at Lotus Bits. Kurt |
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StevenD57 Member 
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Jensen Healey wrote: I fail to see how this is a good HP/buck value. How can you say this is not a good bang for the buck when you have NO IDEA how much the crank-fired distributor-less ignition actually costs or what benefits you will see? |
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superk83 Member
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I don't understand how you can not see the hp/dollar value... Traditional Carbs, ie; webers, dells cost a few hundred dollars with the manifold before tuning. My R1 carbs cost $35... and another $35 with the proper jets... R1 carbs have been used on many 4 cylinder automotive applications and the jetting for specific displacements and airflow capabilities is fairly well documented. For less than the cost of a new Lucas distributor, I'm getting Megajolt and the Ford EDIS system. The distributor alone costs nearly $300... Electronic ignition on top of that, another hundred or so... I've already budgeted nearly a grand(USD) for the required gaket, ring and bearing kits. Regarding Mike's Lotus Bits, I get paid in US dollars, which turns your 220 quid into $360, a bit much for the budget for a single component... This is all going into an 1100 pound car, so I'm not looking for mega-hp... 150-160 would be great... Hopefully, this doesn't sound rude...lol! On the other hand, if you're offering to trade a sorted 912 for a 907 and a zf 5 speed trans, I'm open...lol! I don't want my first post to be taken the wrong way, I'm not trying to buck the establishment or piss people off, just wanting to learn as much as I can as I go along. I appreciate all of the knowledge available here and the unique perspectives each of you hold. Thank you all for your contribution... By the way, what are the 912's going for these days? My ears and mind are open... |
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superk83 Member
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Reading back on that, maybe I should go into more detail of what I'm starting with... I have a 907 minus the dizzy, intake mani, carbs, exhaust manifold and starter. I do have a water pump from an esprit, not sure what year... And that is why I'm sourcing the cheaper bits... I've not picked up the trans yet, so I'm not positive what's included there. Paid $250 for the lot... I'm not upset at all...lol! Last edited on 12-08-2010 01:26 am by superk83 |
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JodyKerr Member
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I wouldn't worry too much. You're just not going the traditional Jensen Healey route. With J-Hs we deal with much more weight, and are all secretly longing for the much later lotus 910 engines. :) I have to say that the 907 in a locost is an uncommon selection. But, as you get more into the car, if you want you can eventually get a LOT moer power down the road. I think the project sounds like a lot of fun. I've had the locost books sitting on my shelf for a long time now. The idea is to eventually do one, but I've got 5 cars in the works right now. :) I've read about the mikuni's being used a lot with little 4 bangers. Could/should be an interesting combination. I've been fighting with my bl**dy strombergs for a while now and am really leaning to FI instead, mainly because I dislike the carbs *that* much. My other JH, however, is likely going to have the Dellortos. I've had a number of my peers not quite understand the locost concept in the past. It's mainly about grabbing what's available and sticking it together. :) Jody |
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superk83 Member
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StephenD57, are you the EDIS EFI guy? I'd love to chat you up about your install... |
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superk83 Member
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Jody, Awesome to have someone understand...lol! Locosts are great little contraptions and extremely competitive in the local autocross... I have a link for you, regarding a gent converting from injection to the R1 carbs. It's incredibly simple. Is it ok to post links to other forums here? |
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JodyKerr Member
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I don't see any reason not to post it. :) |
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superk83 Member
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http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4647341-Switching-to-Bike-Carbs.-Heres-a-write-up! Posted!!!! And in regards to more power, I've got a rebuilt td04 for my SAAB sitting on the shelf that'd be happy to provide motivation through the Mikuni's... 8.5 compression ratio should be about perfect for that!!! Last edited on 12-08-2010 02:33 am by superk83 |
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StevenD57 Member
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superk83 wrote: StephenD57, are you the EDIS EFI guy? I'd love to chat you up about your install...Yes, I am working on that. I have the crank-fired EDIS ignition working now on the car. I am the person who has been accused before of doing projects that "do not give adequate bang for the buck" or "only needed for all out race motors" or "not really worth the hassle" I guess many people prefer to use springs and spinning weights technology that was invented in the 1920's or 1030's to control their ignition timing. Last edited on 12-08-2010 02:41 am by StevenD57 |
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StevenD57 Member
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superk83 wrote: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4647341-Switching-to-Bike-Carbs.-Heres-a-write-up!Ah! That guy had CIS fuel injection. Ancient crappy fuel injection that is mechanical instead of fully electronic. The Megasquirt I am doing is MUCH more modern electronic fuel injection. The CIS injection was also used on the early US only Turbo Esprit cars from 1985 - 1988 (mix of angular sharp edged G-cars and later rounded contour Stevens cars). I have heard of people upgrading those cars from CIS to fully electronic fuel injection using either the Megasquirt or the GM/Delco stuff used on the later Turbo Esprits. The word I have heard on that conversion was "totally transformed the car" so I am looking forward to my Jensen-Healey with EFI verses the original ZS carbs. |
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superk83 Member
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EFI may come in the future, and if/when I go that route, I'll probably run with the GM bits... I've heard the US models had more power than the UK versions... What sensors did you need to get the EDIS up and running? I know the EDIS module and coil pack, the "wheel" and sensor and a TPS sensor(which, fortunately, came with the carbs)... Any thing I'm missing? Aside from Megajolt, obviously... Again, I'd like to thank everyone for their interest! Comments appreciated!!! Kurt, I'd like to hear more from you to understand your perspective, if you wouldn't mind... |
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Jensen Healey Super Moderator
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Hi StevenD, As I stated, "I fail to see." So tell me, what are the benefits of running bike carbs? More torque? More HP? If I told you what I paid for my euro JH Derllortos and manifold setup would it make a difference? ($100 American) I have read replacing distributors with crank fired ignition can give you 2 or 3 HP. Is this wrong? I'm sure lots of stuff is stated as fact that's not. Have fun with your project and let us know how it turns out! Kurt |
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Jensen Healey Super Moderator
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Hi SuperK, I'm not opposed to any modifications or fun in the garage! One of the cool things about the exotic Lotus 907 is that Lotus spent the next 20 years perfecting the motor. We get the benefit of that development in the form of bolt on go-fast parts. Sorry if the tone of my post was negative, I was just surprised that bike carbs and electronic ignition would be inexpensive. Kurt |
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StevenD57 Member
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Jensen Healey wrote: Hi StevenD,I have more than one Jensen-Healey. One has the european DHLA45 Dellortos and the other has the ZS american carb setup. I have never driven a car with a bike carb setup. All I can tell you so far is that the crank-fired EDIS ignition is noticeably smoother running on the highway and starts a LOT better than the original distributor setup. As a computer systems engineer with a mechanical engineering degree I am very comfortable with putting things under computer control. I also know that every Jensen-Healey I have owned has had an oil leak from the distributor. By going to the crank-fired ignition, I also get rid of an annoying oil leak. Too bad I cannot do the same for the poor cam cover sealing design. Last edited on 12-08-2010 03:10 am by StevenD57 |
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StevenD57 Member
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superk83 wrote: EFI may come in the future, and if/when I go that route, I'll probably run with the GM bits... I've heard the US models had more power than the UK versions...I have not installed a TPS sensor yet. I will be adding one with the EFI but the EDIS works quite nicely using manifold vacuum for it's primary load calculations. Since I am doing the EFI as a follow-on project, I went with the Megasquirt controller since it is also useful for fuel control which the Megajolt does not do. One other advantage is I installed a coolant temp sensor which will be necessary for the EFI but the Megasquirt ECU also has a timing control trim function based on engine temperature. I don't believe this is possible with the Megajolt. As I stated in another forum thread here, I have a 14 page PDF article I wrote on the EDIS based crank fired ignition conversion with illustrations and diagrams that I can E-mail out to you if you are interested. I have sent this out to a number of other folks on various Jensen and Lotus mailing lists and it seems to have good reviews and feedback so far. Last edited on 12-08-2010 03:20 am by StevenD57 |
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superk83 Member
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Most of the reason for using the parts I'm using is cost and availability... For what I'd pay for Webers or Dells and manifold, at least in this area(N.KY) I could almost build the rest of the car... I didn't get carbs with the engine, so I chose a cheap, proven alternative... I've had trouble with distributors in the past, and as the engine didn't come with one, I figured I'd go ahead and spend a few bucks and go stand alone electronic... HP gains? Probably... But the fact that condensation won't affect it and a tune up will require pretty much only spark plugs sounded good to me... Most of the guys who switch over to bike carbs do see some gains in hp in the top end where efi setups usually drop a little. But that's not really because of the carbs. Typically, it's because they're mounted mere inches from the head instead of the "ram horn" style intake used by most oems. Shortening the runner length after the TB lessens the restriction on the airflow, getting air in faster. Again, the biggest reason for most to switch to bike carbs is cost. $35 for 4 carburetors? Maybe $25 in aluminum bits to fab a manifold and a few bucks for jets and I've got less invested in the entire induction system than most have in a single carb... Oh, wait... Filters...lol! |
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StevenD57 Member
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As for runner length I suggest you go read the following article: http://77e21.info/mstunedintake.htm It talks about directly measured results with short (9 inches) verses long runner lengths (19 inches). Since the 2.0L Lotus 907 motor does not develop much low end torque, I am definitely planning on adding some longer runners and venturi horns to my EFI setup. |
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superk83 Member
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Steven, I'd love that pdf... suprakkmp@yahoo.com Kurt, Electronic ignition has come a long way thanks to the fellas at DIY autotune(not a plug, just sayin...) You can get the Megajolt ignition-only controller for $165 and the Ford bits from the junk yard(and ebay) for less than $60. The carbs I picked up on eBay really cheap... Guys seem to be swapping these out for EFI setups on the R1 and other Yamaha liter bikes. Finding these parts so cheap are what motivated me to move ahead with the engine purchase... A friend had been hanging it out in front of me for a while and finally, the price was right...lol! |
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superk83 Member
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Thanks for the email, Steve... I'll read over it on lunch... |
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StevenD57 Member
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Yeah, from a cheap junk-yard near here I think I paid less than $40 for all of my EDIS bits. This includes the toothed wheel, VR sensor, 4-cyl coil pack, and the 4-cyl EDIS ignition module. I used the toothed wheel from a 1996-1997 Ford Taurus GL with the pushrod 6-cylinder V6. I found the quad cam Duratec motors had a completely different crank pulley arrangement so do not bother looking on those. The VR sensor also came off of the Taurus but the same sensor is used on a LOT of the mid-1990's Ford. The coil pack and EDIS4 module came from a Ford Escort or Mercury Tracer with the SOHC 1.9L engine. The Autosport Labs site (vendor for the Megajolt ECU) says 1990 to 1999. The same 4-cyl coil pack is used on the V8 engines though. The V8 engines just have two of them. BTW, I ordered the plug wires from Rockauto.com for a 4-cyl Ford Escort with the 1.9L because they were dirt cheap too. I think the new plug wire set was $12 plus shipping. But if I had to do it again I would order the 6-cyl plug wire set for the Ford Taurus because the Escort wires were kind of short. This meant I was limited in how far away I could mount the coil pack. If I would have used the 6-cyl Taurus wire set I would have had longer wires to work with. It turns out the 6cyl wires were only $16 to $18 so the cost difference was not that much. Another option I am still researching is to use the coil pack off of a 4-cyl Dodge Neon. The Neon coil pack has more normal plug wire connection when compared to the Ford EDIS coil packs. I know for a fact that the people doing EDIS conversions on 6-cyl cars have used Dodge coil packs for the same reason so I am guessing the Neon coil packs would work too. I just have to check the primary & secondary resistance to see if the Neon coil packs are compatible with the EDIS Ford coil pack values. Last edited on 12-08-2010 04:01 am by StevenD57 |
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superk83 Member
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Great write up on the install, Steve!!! I do have a question regarding the wiring... What does it mean to have a shield on the wiring... From the diagrams, it looks like there's a 3rd wire looping around the main wires back to the edis module and grounded out? I'm more than likely wrong, I'm not quite in to circuits yet in my studies... Any chance I could get a template for that mounting bracket? A friend of mine owns a machine shop and would make short work of chopping a couple of those out. Regarding the coils, could GM ignition coils work as well as the Dodge bits? I've incredibly easy access to a few Saturns... Thanks for all the info and advice, I really appreciate it!!! |
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JodyKerr Member
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielded_cable Shielded cable keeps the wiring from picking up interference. Jody |
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superk83 Member
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Awesome, Jody! Thanks for the reference... I don't know if any of you have seen the classified on here today or not, but there is a FREE, COMPLETE Jensen up in Toledo right now...!!!! |
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superk83 Member
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So my first set of carbs were a bit of a bust...lol! Turns out they're slightly more incomplete than I thought at first... Monday, a chap on the locost forum posted a set of R1 carbs for sale from his local craigslist... He picked 'em up for me, gave me a break down on the bits: throttle position sensor kickstand/switch exup valve actuator and guts(used to build back pressure in the exhaust system at low rpm...) a small fuse block, fuel pump/filter, starter relay, tilt switch, igniter, and complete wiring harness...! Cost? $50... off of a recently laid over R1... |
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StevenD57 Member
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I don't know what a kickstand switch, or a tilt switch or an igniter are going to do for you but you also have to be aware that the throttle position sensor has to be a potentiometer type. Some throttle position sensors only indicate when WOT is reached or perhaps when the throttle is closed so if it is this type then it is useless. The TPS you need has to be one where there is a variable resistance that changes as the throttle is opened or closed. Typically they have three wires, ground ref, signal out, and 5v supply voltage. |
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superk83 Member
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The value in the other electro bits is in resale... I believe the tps is a potentiometer but will be doing some more research on p/'s as soon as parts are in hand... |
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superk83 Member
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Little update...r1 carbs do have the potentiometer type tps, but ate spaced a little too close together... I'm having a look at Suzuki gsx-r carbs... seem to have better spacing, same size availability and potentiometer type tps... Project has stalled due to focusing on my real estate license, will keep ya updated! |
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